// please note that this chat has been edited to remove private messages to me - Rosy KJ7RYV

10:04:27	 From Daniel HB9GVD : hello rosy, hello all
10:16:27	 From Daniel HB9GVD : sorry, i have to leave. i guess there will be meeting minutes on 44net mailinglist?
10:16:46	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : The meeting is being recorded
10:19:30	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : Discussion topic - I think there is a need for an Amateur Radio Standards Group. There was an attempt - https://aretf.wordpress.com/about/ but it didn’t go anywhere. There are new modes coming out all the time and it’s a scavenger hunt to find where they’re written down.
10:19:49	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : Good idea
10:20:53	 From John Hays : It was me... I will change mics
10:21:38	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : To be discussed, should this be an activity of ARDC or an independent group that ARDC can support.
10:21:49	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : Since open source is so important to ARDC, it would be directly in scope for us. Problem is, some of these protocols are being kept secret, and we need to try to pry them loose
10:22:17	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : Is this more a documentation issue or a coordination/collaboration issue?  If we found someone who likes to spend their time chasing down protocol documents and organizing them into a wiki or something similar, would that resolve your suggestion?
10:22:41	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : We do have the resources to do this
10:22:47	 From John Hays : I will try the alternate microphone at the next break in discussion.
10:22:57	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : Or are you looking more for a forum that would inspire more hams to invent (or perhaps inspire FEWER to invent, but to collaborate more closely to converge on single standards?)
10:23:17	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : john, you sounded like helium speech, as though there was a sampling rate mismatch
10:24:14	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : That’s part of what I’m envisioning, but also development of new standards that are widely agreed upon that are needed. For example, FX.25 seems to be working better than AX.25, but AX.25 is very long in the tooth, and certainly with many decades of progress (and compute power) surely we can improve on AX.25 beyond just tacking on an FEC onto the back end of AX.25.
10:28:15	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : The main challenge with creating new standards is to find a person with the right talents (both technical chops, and the cat-herding skills to manage a committee), who wants to spend their time creating that new standard.
10:29:04	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : Another thing I’ve seen happen is that bright, ambitious college students come up with an interesting idea (often as part of a thesis) and they have a hard time getting the word out to make their ideas widespread. If there is a “experimental standards” group that’s willing to help out in such things, that would help accelerate progress.
10:29:26	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : So Steve, are you talking about documenting existing practice or developing new protocols? Both are firmly in scope for ARDC.
10:29:44	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : But they should probably be separate efforts
10:30:42	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : steve, would you like to bring this up in the main conversation?
10:31:10	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : There should be a clearinghouse for the various standards that are in use, and that is a springboard to new standards.
10:31:30	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : Yes, to discussion after this topic is concluded.
10:34:28	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : Marker - JARL new TNC, TARPN NinoTNC (new FEC), Direwolf, AX.25 in Linux
10:35:02	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : Sounds like we’ve found a vounteer….Steve.
10:35:15	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : But we can certainly cover your expenses.
10:39:41	 From Steve Stroh N8GNJ : It’s something that I feel is needed.
11:00:35	 From Jim K6IYK : Thank You for letting me share my ideas.  Schedule conflict forces me to say Good Bye for now.  My closing comment is to "Plan".
11:01:00	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : Thanks Jim
11:23:22	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : brb
11:24:42	 From Steve Stroh : Following Martin’s lead, would like to discuss an “out there” idea. Pure speculation on my part at the moment.
11:25:09	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : QSL steve
11:25:21	 From Steve Stroh : Can someone repost the URL from Martin’s GPS project? I lost the chat thread when I had to rejoin.
11:25:36	 From Jann Traschewski, dg8ngn : https://galmon.eu/
11:31:01	 From Steve Stroh : Another really good project deserving of support is SatNOGS - https://satnogs.org
11:35:33	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : Someone shared the SatNogs folks in the survey, Steve. We’ve got ‘em logged :)
11:35:54	 From Steve Stroh : Also wasn’t there a UK-only project that’s in the beginning stages?
11:36:22	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : Not sure. There is a Europe-based project that we’re in the Equivalency Determination process for
11:36:29	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : Maybe that’s what you were thinking?
11:36:55	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : Do you mean a UK GPS project?  Or a UK ARDC project?
11:38:11	 From Steve Stroh : UK GPS project. (Just a vague memory that they wanted do do something independent of EU.)
11:39:34	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : Hello?
11:39:40	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : Hi phil
11:40:10	 From Jann Traschewski, dg8ngn : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53192842
11:41:32	 From Steve Stroh : Thanks Jann!
11:43:20	 From David WD5M : Very nice!
11:45:50	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : Tachyon Networks
11:46:23	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : But they discovered about 2002 that the military was their best customer, so they specialized into datacomm for assassination drones.
11:47:02	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : I brought the first Internet connection to Burning Man in about 2000 using a Tachyon satellite dish and ground station.
11:47:52	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : We had to go through special training at Tachyon HQ in San Diego to aim and configure the unit, because if we had it off -- in particular, if our polarization was off, we would interfere with other transponders on the same sat.
11:48:29	 From Steve Stroh : I was a fan of Tachyon Networks!
11:50:54	 From Steve Stroh : Finally teased it out - the datacasting project I was thinking of is https://othernet.is.
11:51:24	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : https://eshail.batc.org.uk/nb/
11:53:47	 From Jann Traschewski, dg8ngn : Steve: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8399-reverse_engineering_outernet
11:58:22	 From John Hays : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuitSat
11:59:34	 From Steve Stroh : @Rosy please capture the chat.
11:59:46	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV : Yep :)
12:00:09	 From Steve Stroh : Planet Labs has 300 satellites already in orbit?
12:00:12	 From Phil Karn KA9Q : yes. please record the chat
12:00:49	 From Steve Stroh : Black Sky is the other company equivalent to Planet Labs.
12:01:26	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : More than that.  Most of them are custom designed CubeSats.  They put up new versions every six months or so, evolving them really quickly.
12:02:08	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : They are running about a gigabit/sec from space to earth on each sat, to download the imagery.
12:02:28	 From Steve Stroh : It’s a longer discussion, probably not germane to ARDC or Amateur Radio, the combination of LEO (relatively quick to decay), low launch cost, and constant iteration, is why SpaceX is going to be the dominant LEO broadband Internet provider.
12:02:39	 From Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV  To  John Gilmore W0GNU(privately) : Just muted you b/c we could hear your keyboard
12:02:42	 From John Gilmore W0GNU : It's a very adaptive channel, reporting back the error rate in real time and adjusting the modulation as the sat approaches and recedes from the ground station.
12:02:51	 From John Hays : Going to sign off -- great discussions :)
12:04:50	 From Steve Stroh : Thank you everyone! I’ll be in touch Rosy.
12:05:50	 From John Gilmore W0GNU  To  Rosy Wolfe - KJ7RYV(privately) : Thanks
12:06:15	 From Jann Traschewski, dg8ngn : https://publiclab.org
12:06:19	 From David WD5M : Thank you everyone. I monitored today as I multitask. I hope to share this meeting recording with others.